Building on the Handshake Stack


(00:00) [Music] all right everybody good to go zach actually should bring zach fogg up here actually there’s so many people that we should bring up there’s a that’s what just like jahan said it was an amazing amazing community this is building on handshake panel and we have two amazing builders for sure with us we have matt zipkin lead developer impervious and he’s been involved since inception right and handshake since before inception actually uh and anthony as well um there’s you know a small crew of us that were working on

(00:39) handshake uh during test net um i kind of came on board during test net four that’s how many test nets there were at least um anthony probably predates that by quite a bit um yeah i just reminded me that there are so many different test nets i forgot about that actually right and after test net four we were going to do another test net because consensus rules and we ended up doing this and the parameters were really weird and yeah wow mad throwback wow yeah it wasn’t even that long ago yeah awesome yeah so that’s great matt

(01:09) and then yeah anthony anthony lewis cto and co-founder at name based io so great to have you great being here all right so um there’s i want to get questions from the audience i’m trying to monitor the chats as well um i think this is a very very important panel i know there’s been lots of questions throughout the conference about you know um various questions of how to build security i know it’s a big question i think both of you are very well prepared to share about all these different topics i have some questions

(01:43) as well but maybe first i think you kind of hinted towards matt but how did you first hear about handshake i think maybe spoke about it briefly in your previous panel yesterday but if you could share again a little bit sure yeah i didn’t mention it briefly a little bit yesterday um i joined first.

(02:02) io in 2018 to work on a project called b coin which is a bitcoin full node implementation written in javascript by jj who worked the first still worshipers and basically he built bitcoin for purse they wanted their own full node implementation um there’s controversy over alternative implementations of full nodes especially um but you know it like it’s inevitably gonna happen it’s like uh chess like somebody is gonna write chess in every computer programming language it’s just gonna happen so you know people are writing bitcoin full

(02:34) nodes in other languages to like go and uh maybe move closer to your mic too there’s some or i can turn the two is that is that better yeah it’s a lot better where you just were here let me move this around a little bit too um i just yeah we’re good now good luck okay we’re rocking it do i sound like i’m on the radio okay um so i i was hired by purse to work on b coin um i actually kind of entered the the bitcoin development space um as an artist i made the bitcoin block clock um i’ll show you guys a little bit later

(03:10) the one i’ve got on my wall and i made a smaller one that was just an spv node um and at the time the only spv node that i could find that i could run in a terminal that wasn’t just like an iphone app was bitcoin um and so i made a small version of the of the bitcoin block clock that ran b coin spv mode and andrew lee from purse.

(03:31) io bought it so i went down to the office and met them um and then uh maybe eight months later and well i guess i should preface this by saying i was an audio engineer for 15 years it’s funny you made a comment about my microphone because like that used to be literally what the only thing i thought about it um so i had this whole other career and um and uh and andrew and jj um wanted me to come help with b coin they had some funding and they wanted help with uh documentation and they hired me as a developer advocate to

(03:56) basically do be coin art and write guides and help get developers involved and make cool things with b coin and the whole open source team at purse was very um it was open we you know were paid by a purse but basically had no obligation to the profit model of the company which is a super interesting way to contribute to open source development you know um absolutely and lots of people use b coin besides purse so we were really contributing to the community and we would joke that our jobs were number go up engineers um our job was to make bitcoin

(04:29) useful and valuable and the way that we were hired to do that was to was to work on this javascript library um and also how i mentioned yesterday um when i remember like i remember the shirt i was wearing the day was interviewed by andrew and jj and they were all like yeah you know they’re they’re both smoking their forgotten both got their vaporizers we’re doing this dns blockchain thing and like i said i was like okay like bitcoins really the thing that i’m obsessed with and um you know all coins i don’t really

(05:00) uh didn’t really care so much about it what didn’t feel strongly one way or another just you know oh you guys are doing all kind okay but i guess i’ll learn about dns um and so i came on as part-time i was um i was still working at the recording studio but i had a lot of downtime and i was contributing to b coin on the computers at work without telling anybody um for months between book sessions contributing to bitcoin um and finally the day came when i got a full-time offer from purse and by that time i was uh sick of the

(05:28) audio industry the part of it that i was in i should say um so came on b coin full time and worked uh all the way through you know purse is kind of like closed and they didn’t and some people left the company and the open source team a few of us were let go and tried to find other jobs and that was right after um uh handshake mainnet launched and also like i was saying yesterday it was super interesting how many more users there were for handshake and like bitcoin has a couple of users and maybe there’s 50 bitcoin nodes out there

(05:58) some people are integrating into projects and issues would come in from users but mainly we were just like building our own scratching our own itches and trying to make it cool and try to find other users for it and then handshake launches and all of a sudden there’s a hundred people that want to know like how the rpc commands work and like what’s wrong with the documentation and and um by working on b coin we all knew about it already javed no dar myself mark tineway boima was like full time on on on handshake mark kind of did both

(06:28) but also focused on handshake a lot and um that was really exciting to just have like all these users on this project that i knew about and i have this problem where if somebody asked me a question i know the answer to it can’t resist like even if i just pops up on my phone and it’s like not a time to be on my phone my god i know the answer to that question i really can’t wait to tell that person you know what it is they’re asking um and so you’re like that yeah it’s true and like you’re in the groups and telegram you’re

(06:57) like you’re like on it man you’re just on it you’re just like yeah it’s an obsession and like i’m still on the b coin uh slack i’m like all alone brayden’s gone and java and node are like they’re still connected but i don’t ever see them online so i’m i’m doing all the support for b coin too like i’ve just sort of added handshake to that um what else yeah so when handshake made that launched you know that there was this thing this new thing that was very exciting that i

(07:23) that i already knew a lot about and um you know i struggled to get a foothold um in in development and um i had uh i sort of worked for kyogen but through purse for a little bit and on bob wallet and then i i sort of worked for uh private internet access for a little bit and then uh over the summer i was just a freelance and raised money from donations name base was very generous to support me and um i got some other generous donations from some early adopters of the system um and then i left and i worked for bitco for three months and

(07:57) then mike carson started impervious and um and that you know here we are great thanks for that background i i i i’m wrong i feel like story time it’s story time here fascinated this is great um thanks matt and then anthony i think a lot of us know uh taisha and your partner uh in ceo um i’m really happy to have you sharing with us i’d love to hear your story and of getting into a handshake and and name base briefly i know that would be a whole uh you know whole session but just a little brief and true

(08:33) yeah sure sure so online class i was taking in around like 2012 and the project was build a crowd decentralized like crowdfunding website that accepts bitcoin as payments um so that was like the class project and then i did that and i thought huh this is right about this exact same experience i could have had just paying with the credit card into my mind it wasn’t like flashy it wasn’t like it was changing the user experience and um i wasn’t interested at that point you know i wish i had stayed interested i

(09:04) didn’t really get it at that point and i took another look at um the sort of the space in like 2016 um now like learning more about all these like new projects that were happening then i got a lot more interested um but i still didn’t really quite get it and the framework i was using at that time was what totally new experiences can we create and i always had in the back of my mind like trust as a given so i was you know to give some examples um like augmented reality that’s that’s obviously like a drastically new

(09:38) experience you can’t really get until that technology starts working um but for a lot of what people are using crypto for um it’s really like doing the same sorts of experiences and environments where those weren’t possible for the reason to trust and that was that critical piece that i was missing um and that’s sort of one reason it’s interesting obviously there’s there’s far more than that you know like thinking about like incentive design and like programming people and like all

(10:06) these things that come after but i didn’t really get it at that point either and i don’t think i really started to understand those things until like 2018 like early 2018 um when i took yet another look and then um yeah i was in sf with uh and we’re you know very like open-minded like meeting all these people like networking and at some point we met the first team and just started talking about things and we hear about handshake and uh you know it didn’t take much to like become interested i think the the

(10:34) core piece of handshake at that time that i was very very interested in was uh handshakes ability to get rid of certificate authorities um because it’s just such a simple story for how to totally get get rid of these cas and it was just such a clear picture in my mind of like wow this is just a much better way of doing things uh yeah i guess some additional back i’ve always been interested in you know security and that’s like pretty much why i started programming i just wanted to learn how to be a hacker

(11:02) um so when i you know initially started that was you know all i did um so security has always been very important to me and just having such like a clear picture of how he can get rid of cas is awesome and the name base i think is a relatively natural idea once you hear about handshake like somehow it’s got to be easy for normal people to use so um you know we focus on that and do that okay very interesting thank you thank you for that it’s great like some people are chatter saying this is a great uh session we should make

(11:29) this nft some people really you guys are really building in the community for for everyone so yeah i think building on handshake is extremely important right a lot of people are you know investing we had a session about investing we had a session you know about buying and selling names but a lot of people have been saying if we don’t build on the system we don’t actually create products and content that makes people want to access these names there’s there’s no point i mean uh drew drew rosner was saying

(11:59) that in his session like if we don’t get browser adoption but we have to basically have to build the whole community whether you’re a builder or not if you’re not if you’re not maybe contribute s fund or other other ways you know even gifting names um to get more adoption so what are what are some easy steps i mean i think you know especially name base you’ve made it super easy for everybody to get onboarded in with also some complimentary products um so like maybe maybe anthony you could share some

(12:29) some ideas you have for people maybe they’re not so technical i think even the smallest contribution of making would be helpful right you know i know you guys have that absolutely yeah absolutely so uh so you you mentioned something in that question just maybe for people that are not too technical because i think that’s a that’s an important point which is that there’s a very broad spectrum of what you can build on handshake and it ranges from just putting up a simple you know like d-link site or maybe you level up from

(13:00) that and you make your own static site using html when you host that somewhere and maybe you level up and maybe there’s an actual server now your handshake name that’s not normally accessible in the open web so there’s like a there’s like a gradient here that you can sort of pick where you are um and i think it’s important for people to build out every at each of those levels um so starting out i think what i would personally love to see and i am seeing some of this but um would love to see more of is just

(13:26) seeing those uh interesting like cyber punky like 90s style like personal websites just on all these handshake names that ideally all look like very different like very unique like has lots of character and then um so we we recently launched um and name renews and there’s a little tab there you can go to uh to showcase handshake projects and i’m hoping that you know that’s sort of a way that people can start a you know sharing these like sites that they’re making just so the whole

(13:54) community can sort of um you know supercharge and get all these sites to be like used and viewed because you know developers love when their things get used and that’s a critical part of it um so i would encourage like every developer that you know knows html like hey if you like handshake then make your own personal site that’s somewhat custom to you and put it up there because seeing that diversity really like paints the picture of like wow like there’s lots of like different people using this okay well i’ll pause there

(14:20) lots more thoughts but in case um yeah i guess maybe passed a question to matt what would you like what you know you’re in all these groups and telegrams and reddits you know what what do you see is uh you would like more people to be building or creating or what are some ideas um there’s a you know it’s it’s just a big open canvas like for for me the um like there’s obviously there’s a spectrum you know like like anthony mentioned there’s people who like all they really want to do is

(14:53) interact with name base and and buy and sell names um i am uh or i mean that’s not just what he was saying but like i’m trying to say that like there’s very simple ways you can participate there’s obviously very deep ways you can participate there’s like i was thinking maybe after this convention we should have a quick little handshake ninjas group and like you know whoever has got like a uh an https site on handshake like gets into that group like that’s um that’s the ultimate that’s the ultimate handshake build is

(15:21) like secure content hosted on handshake um like the um like library genesis is just like my favorite use case and it’s just kind of a recent um development like like like there it is it’s a secure website owned entirely by that website’s administrator and they have trouble with domain censorship it’s like yes like that’s you know that’s so cool um i love i love d-links i love um anybody getting anything uh on a site i remember um the first time i sent and received a bitcoin transaction i

(15:52) remember withdrawing my first coins from mount cox and like seeing it and sending i can’t remember what the actual first send the first person i sent bitcoin to might have been a friend or i might have i might have bought something but like when you see it work for the first time you see confirming the block and it’s just like wow and like for a handshake um going to http colon slash handshake emoji or whatever or you know for me it was it was rough the first site um uh the first hosted content on a handshake name and so when you see that

(16:19) that’s so cool so i would also encourage people not who are getting getting started or something or learning about it or they have some coins or they have some names that aren’t really sure to do um like also try to be a an audience member and and experience uh this web see if you can get your browser to um to go to one of these sites and there’s a lot of ways to do it there’s extensions and you know anywhere from like a browser extension to using a name basis resolver or using a easy handshake doh resolver or using the puma app or h

(16:51) s.2 um oh well like all these things are great like hns.2 is great too but the the joy of seeing something totally unusual in the browser like i encourage people to seek that out even though it takes a few extra steps you know and so so go ahead and get started on a base make an account get some coins do some names sell a name make some money but whoa this is cool what else can i do you’re looking for something to do next like um get it to work you know get it to work in your browser and then you’re like oh man

(17:21) this is https proof of concept like that’s a cool url i want a url like that how do i get there um and then there’s all kinds of ways you know there’s there’s there’s d-links or you can um sebastian razer has published a guide using openbsd i followed the whole thing step by step and i got to work that site for me is omnitude which is a name i got from name base and um he tells you how to run a web server and a name server and get all the work um i have the handout package which you can install on it install on a vps and

(17:50) it generates all the dns set keys and the ssl key and it gives you a very simple thing you just paste into bob or name base um and you can host a secure site that way um great yeah so i don’t know i know it’s a rabbit hole and i’m not so good at i i know matt you’re always trying to make everything secure and it’s really good i don’t know if we want to get so deep into https let’s dean i mean i’m still honestly i’m that’s why i started my like blog and podcast blogging videos i’m trying to

(18:21) make it more simple because some of these guys like i saw a razer’s guide it was too technical for i mean i’m still like i it’s still hard for me to follow some of these technical guides so how far are we where it could be something like you know i i like let’s encrypt right like i just get free ssl i press a button it like looks like it’s doing something and it’s just successful you know like we’re pretty far from that i mean right now i was lucky to have some people helping me also i want to make sure that the

(18:49) community is so helpful like you’re like i think you’re literally replying to a question that a group right now in this session first of all i want to encourage people some people i talk to are shy to ask questions in groups you know i have friends they’re they’re a little bit like oh i don’t want to bother i don’t want to bother other people it’s a question somebody already asked or already knows or i i don’t know enough i think what i’ve noticed in this community is i just i

(19:19) just throw a question in a group or a you know name basis discord is really great you know there’s various telegram groups and others um i think that developers here are all really willing to help you right like i’m kind of like that middle of tekken i’m half tech half business kind of maybe bad at both but uh you know i just jump in a group and there’s so much support in question right so we should really engage with the community right i mean would you say people shouldn’t be shy to ask questions right

(19:46) sure oh yeah not at all yeah yeah if you’re wondering something there’s always 10 lurkers also wondering that so i understand that is really important i was just going to say that there’s also or maybe something that we need to develop more of is like knowledge bases or like faq i refer people to learn.namebase.

(20:07) io all the time um it’s pinned in the subreddit which i also like you know whenever somebody makes a cool guy like hey i got email working on handshake i’m like write a guide post it on reddit post on medium tell everybody i’ll give you 100 hms you know um i’m constantly doing that i’m trying to get everybody to um uh hey how do i do this i don’t know figure it out once you figure it out tell everybody and and put it on the subreddit or um or put the you know put the medium and give me the link to the medium post or

(20:34) something so um yeah you know chat rooms are great places to ask for help i spend a lot of time on irc and um if you can get yourself on irc it’s something that’s slightly more technical than like telegram or slack but um all the like i get questions answered there all the time i have a problem installing something at open bsd this weird flavor of linux i’ve never used before went to the irc channel got help from people who are like obsessed with that flavor of linux right away um the dns channel on irc has

(21:03) been very helpful i don’t think they know what i’m actually up to but they have answered a lot of my questions about dns sec um and you know the bitcoin and handshake challenge will like that too like like the bitcoin core developers are are surprisingly happy and available to answer questions on irc okay um yeah great um anthony were you saying do you want to add something to the questions or the community part developers uh no i think uh matt’s ended up good i do have lots of random uh ideas i could share with people

(21:34) things to build yeah please please there’s also some questions in the in the chat i’ll get to too we have about 10 10 minutes left yeah sure sure uh so something i’m uh really really interested in seeing is some sort of um it’s hard to put a finger on it but some some way to you know sign random content with names that are pinned to your handshake name for the following purpose um let’s say it’s a let’s say it’s like twitter that you’re making you’re making decentralized

(22:06) twitter i want to be able to like sign messages or encrypt messages with my friends keys and send it through this you know centralized website just so it’s accessible on the normal internet and have them be able to decrypt that using their keys that they just have and i i did that by looking up their handshake name so basically making um just like pgp keys like more universal and just having um more trust in that oh like this this you know key is actually for this person and i know that because i know this person’s name

(22:35) that’s the name they’re communicating to me with um so i see this getting very interesting is if you imagine a news website so suppose that there’s all there’s all these articles and maybe it’s about um protests in myanmar and uh perhaps there’s like friends that you have that are first parties to that article that was written and they can sign this with that key that’s pinned to their name and you can decide to trust those keys and trust those friends um you know you know like pgp and like the web of trust like already

(23:04) you know sort of like has has that sort of idea um because my and the goal that i would like to get to is for me to trust news that has been signed by lots of first parties that i trust somehow and maybe that’s because it’s a friend of a friend and you know both of those connections are strong like i trust their key and they trust the friends key and that friend was the first party to the content in the news article um because when i think about um like for this particular problem of like how fake news is going to proliferate

(23:33) and change it’s only going to get worse like we already have like gpt3 like like that stuff gets like very scary when you just you know try and project a few years out i see like the fake news problem getting worse and worse and i don’t see any path for a centralized solution um when i say centralized solution there i mean you know like suddenly just deciding to trust this provider of news like this you know mainstream like media outlet i think like a nicer solution that is like the essential solution is there’s like this network of people

(24:02) you trust and you trust the things they trust and that’s not possible by pinning keys to handshake names and something i’m very interested in seeing get built yeah so you yeah like there’s also the neymar news it also has the login with handshake name um so actually i also set up a handshake.

(24:19) mercenary forum and i’m talking to tshon i’d love to integrate your your that’s kind of part of the name of news right is your id login with your handshake name for other developers so that’s something really really exciting for sure um just briefly on that um on logging in with a handshake name um and i’ll speak like technically i think this is call focused on people building on handshake um we’re really we’re gonna release way more docs on that stuff soon just and there’s a github issue about this someone recently that i left to

(24:49) comment on but just to share here as well so the goal for handshake login is when you’re logging into a website and you say hey my name is anthony what that authentication server is doing is it’s asking the anthony name like hey how am i supposed to log you in um so it then redirects you to that sort of website and the typical way is there are some keys that are saved and you know that are encrypted and stored in you know your browser uh but there there’s a number of things you could do there like it could redirect you to a

(25:19) website that asks your fingerprint like something like web authent could redirect you to a website that asks you to copy and paste a challenge that you’ve signed on your p with your pgp key that’s on a totally separate laptop or maybe it’s an app on your phone or maybe it’s a multisig with five different things um so all of this is like possible um it’s just not built yet anyone can do it and it’s something we’ll help out with a bit um but you know it’s possible for people to do that today already if they’re

(25:43) interested awesome yeah it’s really exciting stuff there’s there’s a bunch of questions in the chat and in the questions section um i don’t think we’ll be able to get all of them you guys both are welcome to see the questions tab um actually it’s true the link for sebastian razer’s guide do you have that offhand sure or we could find it but maybe later we’ll put in a chat um there’s a link on http omnitude i’ll link to it from there if you have handshake you can get to it from there

(26:12) but it’s sebastian.raiser antique tutorial.html i’ll copy it um i’ll i’ll look at another question you know somebody’s just worried about storing their their hms there i don’t know if you want to give some insights about security and everything uh so i’m looking at the question are you referring to one it seems to be asking about name based security specifically yeah he’s asking specifically about that yeah sure so i can say a bit about it so you know some of our funds are stored in

(26:40) hot wallets because it’s very necessary to be able to bid with those um some of those funds are stored in like you know most of those funds are in like cold wallet where it’s like you know it’s never connected to the internet the keys are not never exposed to a you know computer that’s been connected to the internet or you know different like various kinds of like hardware devices et cetera um there’s never been a breach of the wallet although there was one incident very very start in february where some

(27:10) of our users passwords were just on the open internet and someone like guessed that and then that user you know lost their funds so that’s not necessarily a problem with it’s not necessarily like a technical security issue on abuses then but we should have done more to you know prevent that and now we do because now we have to white list ip addresses before they can log into your account but there’s no there’s never been any security issue you know there’s never been any sort of breach any like loss of funds lots of names

(27:39) um improper access to account you know when you know the password wasn’t just like on the internet um so we’ve gone through um pen testing by this company called synac um at the time they typically worked with like larger companies but you know because of some like you know networking like some connections that we had they’re willing to test our site and then they had um i forget that exact numbers but it’s like over 100 plus it’s it’s it works similar to some of these um like crowd sourced like bug bounty like

(28:13) websites but it’s a little bit different because they all have to go through like some assessment and they’re all like whitelisted all these like pen testers are like known to be good um i used to do some stuff for snack before um so uh yeah there’s a hundred plus researchers spending like so many hours trying to hack our site and then they found a few things that were like honestly very minor nothing that would have had any problems and the time to vulnerability they showed us like the histogram it was like far far on the tail compared

(28:43) to like the average website so like things are like very safe like part of the reason like we build things with the speed we do is because we spend we spend a lot of time um like double checking to make sure that things are safe and that’s like the engineering culture that we have in the company it’s like um to give some examples we made some changes to how we sent transactions recently so if anyone that’s watching the blockchain closely you’ll you’ll see that a lot of the bids a lot of the

(29:03) reveals are now batched into a single transaction like far more efficient both in terms of like the speed of the wallet can do that and also in terms of reducing the size and the blockchain like far more efficient um that that code was ready for like probably over a month and it was just spent so long just checking like every tiny way that could have gone wrong before we were willing to you know start start rolling that out so we take that very seriously there has not been a problem great okay thanks for that answer

(29:29) anthony i know i i i know you guys are doing great at name base and it’s a big responsibility because i think the huge volume i know tianjin has talked about the you know you guys miss scaling really fast uh as handshake has grown name base grows so you guys are doing a great job uh for the community uh there’s a longer question i don’t know if you see that here i don’t know if we have time but i see a longer question he has and dot bar and he wants to create subdomains that resolve on traditional

(30:00) dns like mike’s restaurant dot and dot bar and then point them to also to handshake network so i think the tricky part is also i think right you can’t you got to choose hns or dns also i think it both at the same time i don’t know it’s a little bit hard for me to understand fully it’s a bit tech do you guys you can’t host a website on um on multiple domains you know you can you can run one instance of apache on an ip address on a server and then configure it to respond even with different ssl certificates

(30:36) to different domain names um so you could have uh you could be running a web server at and it could also operate the exact same content at you know at name base or www dot name base or something like that um that might help answer that question i think that’s what it means you know there’s also a lot of interesting flexibility because you know you can have multiple dns records in the in any root zone or in your zone file and one kind of advanced dns technique that big companies use is something called

(31:12) edns which adds extra data including your location and you can serve different dns records to a a user based on where they are on earth so that you know when you’re going to they don’t just have that one instance running on a web server on aws or something they have them all over the world and when you type in that url the ip address you get back from the dns system is the one that’s closest to your literal like location or where it thinks your little location is um so it can be very flexible you can

(31:43) have we were having a conversation the other day about um somebody was interested in the ethereum name server idea that we were working on and asked you know can i transition or can i do both and yeah of course like if you have a handshake name you can have two ns records and one points to the ethereum bridge and one points to a regular name server and you’re going to want to keep those zones in sync otherwise different users might end up with different records so i’m just afraid about time i really appreciate he’s asking for a guide i

(32:10) mean um what i think though these brandon deez i mentioned in the intro he’s in our chat he’s also super supportive and active in the developer community all over every channel like i know of them and and he um he says that there’s more coming in for hns fund you know we’re doing an auction today a lot of proceeds will go to h s fund once there’s more money going to these open source developers there a lot of people working for free you know or in hopes that later their product or project or knowledge or

(32:38) network is monetized so hopefully that some of those funds will go to those people that will create this documentation but it’s one of the challenges i think of being in an open source kind of community and a decentralized kind of system is um it’s almost chicken or the egg you know do i do i spend do i quit my day job and build something all day hope later i get but we see jahan is interested in investing in startups in the ecosystem there’s uh h s fund coming up getting more funding so hopefully more

(33:07) documentation will come um one thing i’ll quickly say about that is like yeah you know we’re still very early we can talk about how early it is there’s only 100 people watching this you know that might be the entire ecosystem or at least the english-speaking one it’s still very early um time and um there are already a certain number of developers that are doing amazing things like uh the guy who wrote shake decks or the developer who wrote shake decks i don’t know who they are or the developer who wrote the um

(33:37) pre-signed reveal pr for hsd uh or sebastian who’s doing this email thing and um i’m just like over the last two months maybe the um the level of projects that are being born on hinchik are just like crazy and as handshake is getting exciting and as more money is coming into the space like um there’s already 10 developers like at the top of my list that if someone was like we’re gonna give impervious money and you can hire somebody like i know where those people are right away because they’re already building awesome

(34:03) stuff okay and there’s some great conversations in a live chat and there’s more questions coming but i i think we’re already over time um it’s great though it’s but i agree with what matt’s saying is the last i mean i’ve only been in this four or five months i think october i got involved 2020 and even since then i’ve seen huge growth in the community and the users and the development and it seems like um this is a new milestone this conference the h s fund various d web foundation starting uh also all

(34:35) the products coming out of name base with the news namer news and login with handshake and the so i i feel like there’s some amazing things um i think people can read the chats themselves i don’t think we’ll be able to get to more questions but um anthony do you have any final words for people in the audience so interested in building um another you know some support motivation for them yeah yeah so uh highly highly encourage people to do like any like it’s pretty easy to put a website on handshake like a static page

(35:13) and i highly encourage people to get their foot in the door by just putting like something up and maybe that’s to start is just a d-link and then you realize i actually want this to be far more custom i need to put up my own static page here and then you level up and do that and then like as you get more and more into things and as you learn more and more you’re gonna you know have all these sorts of ideas of other things you could be doing so i encourage people they’re feeling any hesitance around

(35:36) any hesitation around you know like there’s a lot here maybe i don’t fully understand what handshake is yet or like it’s just like a lot to learn um i encourage you to just take that first baby step and just put something on there um maybe just it’s just changing your resolver settings and accessing some names and feeling the fomo like hey i want my name to work like that too um and then once you get in you’ll you know you can learn slowly and start doing more complicated things as you get more involved

(36:02) and i think the last part you notice people talking about marketing browser adoption you know if we’re just buying and sitting on names you know we’re not going to get browser adoption if we’re building and we’re showing all these sites being built and showing all these products being built that’s the way to get browser adoption you know not so of course we all like to speculate on names and you know flip etc i know some developers are actually funding their development by flipping names i won’t say specifically who but there

(36:27) are some i’ve talked to about only what they do and they’re actually flipping buying and selling names and they’re built which is pretty amazing so yeah it’s awesome i i think we’re at time i’m trying to keep on top of everything but this has been fascinating uh and i think the main takeaway is yeah just put anything like d-links is super simple if you’re using name base for your names just getting that on there it’s going to be another stat in our kpi of active websites but of course try to

(36:54) keep pushing yourself like me i’ve i’m not technical in the last few months i’ve been in these huge conversations about scary code and command line stuff and uh you know you just keep going down that rabbit hole so thank you matt and anthony it’s really pleasure to be able to host this panel with with you you’re really building and helping us so much here thank you thanks for everything thanks anthony yeah see you all right [Music] you