Getting More Adoption and Integration in Handshake


(00:01) [Music] back again uh once again i’m your moderator for today jahan chu from kinetic um we’re really excited to be able to talk about adoption and integration i think one of the most important discussions we can have in the handshake ecosystem and really in blockchain and crypto generally uh we’re excited to be able to have a number of really really qualified uh and expert speakers here um you know and just i guess going around the table uh we have david uh from cs skynet we have greg from akash and we have uric from puma browser so

(00:43) welcome guys thanks a lot for being here um i think my role here you guys are incredibly technically uh knowledgeable and can really address a lot of the issues and the challenges and the roadmap ahead for handshake adoption um from that perspective so i’m really just gonna try and get out of the way maybe we can start off by just going around the table and um saying uh just who you are what you do and then kind of just a few notes about you know um how you’re thinking about handshake uh david can we start with you

(01:13) sure um so my name is david fork i’ve been working in crypto since 2011. it’s been a decade now and these days have been focused entirely on a platform called skynet it’s a i would say like an upgrade to aws you know people um when you use reddit or youtube or instagram all your data ends up on some other cloud and in the hands of corporations and we’ve developed a system that allows you to remake these platforms except where you control all of your data and we’re really excited about that and skynet itself works entirely in

(01:52) public keys and hashes which are not super friendly to just normal human usage that’s where handshake comes in we can use handshake to translate this ugly 46 character hash into a name like sky feed and so in terms of just making all the cool stuff we’re doing at skynet accessible and very user friendly handshake has been a total life saver and everyone in our community ev everyone making something interesting has a handshake name associated with what they’re building it is it has been almost 100 um

(02:32) invasion of our community that’s awesome hopefully hopefully it’s more of a cross-pollination than an invasion but uh glad to see that there’s this mixtape matching uh hi folks uh my name is yuri uh founder of puma um our tagline is a web3 exploratory web3 browser the idea is really simple we we believe that internet kind of works and it’s only going to grow and our lives are going to be deeper and deeper entrenched online and browser is your window into that world and if you look at the ui if you look at the features of the

(03:08) browsers in the last 20 years there’s been a lot of innovation um but also there if you squint at it there hasn’t been as much um and i i come from developer relations i’m a developer to me most problems are a developer platform problem and i think the web is the biggest one and the project started as a curiosity i was back in crypto i first started back in 2012 and then i was back in crypto in 2018 poking around ethereum walking around solidity a lot of smart contracts um to me it pretty quickly became

(03:38) obvious that at at least at the time i think there’s more attention now to the user experience and the end user kind of like how can people actually use the project but a few years ago there wasn’t so much focus on that and we also believed in interoperability uh i wasn’t sure at the time like i don’t have deep investments or almost any anything in one particular network or token which i think interoperable the future is multiple chains doing uh different things and uh that’s how i found out about interledger

(04:06) protocol that’s how i met stefan and and a bunch of other people and uh i met greg as well through uh through stefan and that kind of ecosystem of interoperability and started building puma uh that uh we want to make payments seamless so we started with micropayments with coil and interledger protocol we’re working on identity uh handshake is just a curiosity uh thing i met t sean uh in in in a slightly cliche way we we used to both work out at equinox in san francisco and we went when that that that was a thing uh

(04:38) but he’s awesome we also met at the decentralized web uh d-web camp and so we just get to know him and then over time i just like started poking more around uh handshake and uh seemed very interesting i also got to meet david welbeck as well i think saya is an extremely underrated project in the in the crypto space so it’s really excited to be part of this panel here great thanks yuri yeah good to see you again and jihan my name is greg osuri i’m the founder for akash network and i lead the development efforts there akash

(05:10) in is simplest term it’s the world’s first open source cloud it is a computation network that’s decentralized and permissionless and uh non-custodial right so it’s very complimentary if you think about in the decentralized web ecosystem what you guys are doing at skynet provides storage akash uh would be a complimentary product on top of that that’ll consume the storage and add a computational layer on top of that and handshake is an amazing fit into the entire puzzle of a decentralized uh yeah stack where it resolves the

(05:45) ip addresses given by uh akash so um really i think why akash because you know so really think about what the current cloud is essentially an oligopoly controlled by four four major providers that control about 81 percent of the market chain a lot of these providers were created for an era that’s not current right so these look at aws is about 15 years old and over time these uh providers uh got misaligned with a developer and today we have an arcane tool said so akash is really an answer to the needs of a modern developer at a price point that’s

(06:26) set by a market where we’re in 85 or so of compute capacity in data centers remain unused so creating an open marketplace that’s uh accessible to everyone at a price point that’s probably two or three times lower is the promise of caution i’m really excited another fun fact is akash means the sky in sanskrit so akash net could also mean the sky date so there’s that relation as well so just call it coincidence or whatever but here we are awesome thank you greg um yuri why don’t we kind of come back

(06:59) to you for a second i i think if i’m not mistaken you were the first browser to integrate handshake yeah i totally forgot the which conference event yeah oh yeah that’s the headline you’re the first one to integrate can you tell us about like um how was that process why you decided to do it and and where you kind of see it going uh for puma and so so there’s a i think handy browser uh is the first desktop browser technically to be uh to be supporting handshake where the first mobile browser to natively support it

(07:29) um and we’re also like today full transparency today it goes through gateway uh like mobile performance latency all those things are are a concern uh this is the first kind of preview of handshake support so it goes through um hns.2to but what we wanted to do is we wanted to take a first step uh in envisioning what the end user experience would look like and how how easy can we make it for people to just download one app and be able to access their their handshake domains and um i think that that’s that’s number

(08:02) one goal we’re hiring by the way uh and we’re actively working on um adding hsd and like at least like client maybe the full node eventually into the browser uh so that you can access the truly decentralized features of it but the first step is basically a prototypical implementation that’s already been working really well um i think uh one thing that we when we started puma um one of our taglines was deeply focused on privacy and we still believe in privacy you believe your browser has no business

(08:29) uh knowing uh your browsing history is very important it’s very personal um and there should not be a financial incentive to know anything about you um but at the same time privacy is very hard to demo and it’s very hard to measure it’s very hard to um kind of like except for just long term building out the trust for the community there’s not as much you can do on that side with handshake the the response of the community to us implementing even the preview has been phenomenal there’s people who have emoji uh

(08:57) top-level names there’s nicole who’s writing an amazing uh content for getting started with crypto and her url just like nicole slash and if you go to a browser being able to type in your name hit slash like t-shin did with d-links and other things it’s just been so exciting it’s so much creativity uh and and uh including somebody recently registered uh hns for terry crews and uh passed it on to him as a gift uh and terry set up the d-link as well there so it’s just like there’s so much

(09:25) creativity happening there that i think we like every time we look at the road map from a pragmatic kind of like business perspectives or like we talk a lot to investors and then they’re like super skeptical about certain directions and and and you know we get sad but then when we talk to our community and to the users and we see the and we follow the curiosity path uh just like i did when i started puma so many amazing things start to happen and start to click and so i think it’s really amazing to see the the community step up so

(09:52) so so heavily and uh and explore and create uh some new things and then things that name based folks have been shipping recently just phenomenal the the the preview of the identity setup for uh for your logins and and otherwise that’s i think that’s actually remarkably like i think that’s gonna be big uh i’m we are actually overdue to catch up with david and then also greg as well on some of those things we uh we’d love to have deeper support for psy and things we can do um especially on the token sharing

(10:22) there’s some interesting problems on like the in in the as a side effect of fighting towards uh third party against third party cookie tracking you’re also starting to get to the point where um legit good applications are are having trouble maintaining uh state of users and so i think there’s a lot of um open problems and we’re just starting uh on that path great um david ping back over to you um thinking about i mean obviously kind of um sayo is one of really the kind of earliest integrators as well

(10:54) so many things are kind of transporting over uh and as you mentioned even a lot of people in your community are are integrating handshake into uh into what they’re building can you tell us more about that i mean where does it come from um how are how are your developers how are your community like viewing handshake if they’re not already in the handshake community how are they looking at um the kind of two stacks next to each other in terms of application building in the future of application yeah i mean for us i think the the main

(11:25) thing right now is uh just the the ability to put um human readable names on top of your application um because then you can you can share links that people will be able to remember there’s also in smaller part some exploration of using handshake as like usernames and actually i’m kind of i don’t know how well that’s going to scale because i think handshake has a limited number of names they can allocate per block and so if we get you know 100 million users who all want a handshake name that might

(11:57) um so i don’t i don’t know if that’s going to work out but in terms of naming applications i do i do think that um there’s enough space you know applications aren’t nearly as common as users um and so there should be enough space to do to do that so i think that’s that’s the main thing that we’ve been excited about and then of course um just in general like i think there’s a lot of energy around getting away from uh i would just say like overlords is a good term there there are people

(12:27) out there that decide what we’re allowed to say what websites are allowed to exist and like um you know almost i feel like there’s starting to be a generational gap where like the people who control these systems are kind of out of touch with what the new technologies need and like what we want and so um just anything that gives us alternate avenues to express ourselves has been um just very exciting and very welcome because i i do think that that most of our infrastructure is out of touch um with our needs and and we want to uh

(13:05) thrive you know we want to create space for ourselves yeah i think that’s that’s quite important i love how what you said about the generational gap um i haven’t really thought about it from uh decentralization um as as a as a cultural awareness for this generation but i think increasingly it is it’s an important point to make um greg over to you what do you think are some of the the kind of larger challenges uh that handshake has foreign broader integration and adoption um obviously i think that you know what

(13:34) puma browser is doing and what handy browser’s done is a start you know there are like a lot of conversations all over the space about trying to push um browser integrations and and further kind of um dns resolver integrations but from your perspective what’s you know what’s holding back uh kind of handshake in terms of adoption i think it comes down to more awareness right like like people that are aware of handshake will understand the value handshake provides which is a censorship resistance routing network

(14:09) uh to the globe right and i think it’s still not very evident for the larger uh audience about the the the kinds of things that are happening today with censorship i mean before it’s not no longer just like you know controversial stuff it’s it’s pretty much anything if you’re in crypto you probably experienced quite a bit and we got shut down recently our youtube channel got shut down our twitter accounts get you know i mean we claimed it back but it was still very annoying i think to go through right um and

(14:43) well there’s this awareness piece and and second i believe is the uh developer focused uh content in general like when i’m a developer uh i’m looking at handshake um and if i not someone that particularly cares about censorship resistance is there any other way i can i can leverage hand checking i think the programmable nature of the dns is less uh obvious and that’s really what’s exciting for us uh handshake is not a centralized and extremely programmable that’s really exciting for for for us

(15:19) and you can use a discovery layer uh dns provides but not many applications other than just pure pure web routing right so uh i think exploring and um like usrv records we have like a whole lot of things you can actually use uh dns for um and we after actually use dns for for load balancing and a whole lot of things from a developer standpoint and kind of exposing and and you know making those uh features more available and getting more developers uh in front of this could actually uh you know uh increase uh adoption and we’re

(15:57) looking at developer first uh uh style here and some of the things that we’re looking forward to doing with handshake is uh uh you know the challenge now with the coaches every time you have a a fault tolerant event you know you could have an ip address change because provider kicks you out you can go to a new provider and get a new ip address in essence like that i mean the dns doesn’t really change right so it’ll be phenomenal to integrate handshake when every time there’s a new ip address you can actually uh

(16:27) you know register that with your domain which again resides in the sense construct resistant uh layer that your users can get to thanks that’s great how do you feel about the uh the kind of developer tool set uh i mean in terms of obviously it’s a very as you mentioned developer first um type of approach and handshake in many ways is no different in one sense we see kind of these different areas we see you know the domain name speculators and kind of domain name bidders you know really kind of taking the

(17:00) charge uh leading the charge on on the the price and the signal um and that kind of front end but on the back end how’s it going with kind of developer adoption uh of handshake this is more an open question to all of you i mean what are you seeing out there in terms of like improving kind of tool sets and such um to make it easier to develop on handshake and integrate with handshake and what’s neat i think i mean it’s not yet there and this is an area of a high passion for me when i look at a handshake and when i look at how to

(17:31) use handshake uh it’s not very obvious uh from any you know from a developer standpoint or how do you build on top of handshake right i think adding some sense of clarity there and adding some content there like guides and whatnot will significantly you know could actually contribute to developer adoption and secondly also building or extending uh handshake not the core protocol but the tooling around it uh to address some of the discovery problems people have while building infrastructure tools could give an additional or a different

(18:07) view as to how you look in open source dns system um and and i’m actually working on a new series called demystifying d-web where i really want to and the third thing is how do you sort of like make it frictionless to integrate with the rest of the platforms right the integrations are huge if you look at uh you know integration framework-based integration path for a lot of the development tools it’s a very straightforward uh you know uh success uh framework right so uh you know akash integrating handshake

(18:40) so that the users of akash will have a lot of frictionless you know uh registration experience or resolution experience and handshake or even psi and scan it integrating handshake and really giving that those channels for for uh for handshake to acquire those developers i think could be a big boost as well great thanks david any comments on that yeah um so i have i have two i guess classes of thought um so the first is that one of the things that’s on our to-do list that we haven’t gotten to yet is is so

(19:16) our disconnect portals already run handshake full nodes which means if you supply them with tokens you can transact on the handshake network and so we could create an api directly in skynet that allows users to update their handshake names or even you know go as far as like buying new names or doing other sorts of trades and so um one of the things that we would really love to do is is give applications a direct way to interact with handshake just from this like like just from the user’s client page and then so that’s that’s something

(19:57) that’s on our to-do list i think we have a bunch of other stuff in the way first um but i think that would really improve um not only how much people use handshake but also just like the overall decentralization because you’re you’re using handshake through a portal instead of through something like name base um and then the user the end user doesn’t really have to worry about acquiring handshake because that’s happening again at the portal operator level acquiring h and s tokens um that’s

(20:27) happening at the portal operator level um so that’s that’s something we definitely got our eye on and seeing how we can make um just api endpoints within skynet itself that integrate better with handshake um and then kind of on the more critical side i think something that we’ve found um that i think initially surprised me and in hindsight it feels um it feels inevitable but but i think that when it started happening uh we were all kind of surprised which is that handshake has this um very i’m going to say clever game

(21:04) theory system where when you’re bidding for domains there’s a bunch of game theory that um when both sides are playing uh playing optimally the result is that everybody bids what the name is worth to them and then and then they um they only end up paying what the name is worth to the to the other person so you you kind of uh you pay as little as possible but the thing gets priced correctly at the end of the day and this is actually like pretty sophisticated people often don’t know what they’re willing to pay for

(21:41) something and like we’ve seen multiple instances of someone being like yeah you know i’d pay 10 bucks and then some scalper grabs it for 15 bucks and they’re like no you’ll pay 300 bucks then they’re like oh you know maybe i would pay 300 bucks like now if now i feel bad because i lost it and you like get this emotional component and so like the lesson here is that uh the scalpers know the game theory they know the emotion they know the dynamic and um and so they’re actually really good at fleecing our users and because

(22:09) there’s this big two-week window uh or one one week for the bidding process for scalpers to kind of get in the middle that just gives a lot of opportunity and and i think there’s actually a very substantial unfair advantage in favor of scalpers that is even worse than than the way icann does domain sales um because you know it’s not a problem with the game theory it’s is a problem that users don’t know game theory and don’t know themselves they don’t they don’t realize how much something’s worth to them

(22:38) but the scalpers do know how much something’s worth to them because they’ve released you know 100 users so far they have a really good feel for it um so yeah i think what i would like to see is handshake change it so it’s a simple either you just you just post that you’re going to buy a transaction you get it in one or you’re going to buy a name you get it in one block there’s no bidding at all or maybe if you want like one layer of protection do like a commit reveal so you commit to buying a name but you

(23:07) shield it so nobody knows which name you bought and then six blocks later um you show this is the name i bought and and here’s the proof today that i pre-bought it and if no one comes up and says oh we you know we did it first then you win the name and so i think i think that gives you um i think that would be much it would result in more users getting the names they want for cheaper and less scalpers uh getting a bunch of value out of users for playing the game better um so yeah that’s that’s something i’ve seen uh on

(23:37) the on the ground a lot like like 80 percent of bids go this way i feel like got it uh pinging over to you yuri um going back to the subject of kind of you know the the tooling and the kind of integration how was your experience and and what do you want to see kind of better going forward how can how can the kind of developers in the community add to it i saw that you’re posting about having more educational materials and i totally agree with that i mean this is officially like a call for kind of community content

(24:07) uh to start populating and start kind of flooding the airwaves with with you know better guides and and more kind of um information but yeah i think like a funny story about what david was mentioning by the way somebody snapped my uh my last name dipski which is impossible to spell and like aside from me i don’t know if anybody would ever want the tld i’d love it for my family but i was able to buy it back through through an offer system that folks name is it so i think name base is doing an amazing job

(24:33) of advocating for for handshake community uh and creating great materials uh uh a way for an airdrop for example uh i’ll be honest i’m a reasonably decent developer when i when i get to sit down and actually build things um but using the official guides i had trouble claiming uh my airdrop as a which also by the way like doing an airdrop for active github developers i think is a phenomenal thing that the original handshake team did because it attracted a lot of builders and i think encouraging builders to

(25:01) build um is a really great way to get more materials but definitely educational materials are lagging in all sorts of direction we’ve uh like those in the forbidden term in the last few few weeks have been nfts and everybody has been there’s like so many mentions of it on all sorts of platforms and everywhere that people are starting to ban it but um it’s also i think important and interesting to see uh this is not directly the question you asked but uh but hello kitties for example a lot of people were saying this is not truly

(25:28) decentralized this is not you know necessarily like you know a way for for you to to own the asset because you can only view the kitty uh on one website uh so there’s questions there but from an educational perspective from an entertainment perspective uh i think that was really awesome for getting up to speed with those concepts and if you’ve seen the crypto zombies which is the solidity tutorial of how to get up to speed with solidity having more games like that having more kind of fun projects i think is really

(25:56) important for the ecosystem and that’s um that’s why i think the the the unfortunate balance that david mentioned there’s the there’s the scalper angle which if people have financial incentive um things could grow but there’s you know a side effect to that and then there’s the fun curiosity gaming perspective which uh i think is something much more exciting i would love to see more games there um and uh if somebody could could find more of that development that would be pretty awesome i think

(26:24) yeah i think that having more games would be definitely interesting and i wonder uh if anybody’s out have you guys heard of anybody making uh kind of games or any other type of interesting applications i guess i’m actually really curious from the application standpoint other than what you guys are doing what are some other interesting ideas or applications that you’ve seen in the wild that you think could potentially you know drive adoption or kind of more easily bring handshake to uh to to the master is huge and it worked out

(26:49) really well for us especially the cars we had at the last night we we um you know released had about 480 monthly active developers and a lot of them and when we have this shared catalog community curated catalog called awesome akash and attracted over 100 applications people creating different configuration files and sharing with other people and doing different unique things and sharing with other people a lot of that i think is attributed to the incentivized testnets we had um that worked out really well for us

(27:23) just out of curiosity you were you were able to incentivize them because you guys have a treasury right yes we had a treasury and we also have a community pool uh that’s managed by government’s proposal in in the in the handshake ecosystem like there is no treasury right there’s just what people have and there’s just what people mine um can you think of any ways or or have you guys thought of any ways to kind of solve this particular problem where there’s just no there’s no kind of community money

(27:50) there’s no community pool right to drive this it’s each to each their own um any thoughts on that on how to kind of drive these incentives or to promote support without actually a built-in yeah i think you should build in a budget um so we we recently split the scion network um so just a little history was previously entirely vc funded there was a for-profit corporate entity that did all the development um had a go-to-market strategy and a revenue strategy and at some point we kind of realized this was uh not sufficient addressing

(28:28) all the needs of the cyan network and so we were faced kind of with the same question that you guys face now which is all these things that are super valuable um but we can’t nail down an roi right if if i can’t go to the board and say you know these these 12 engineering months will return the money that we spend on the 12 engineering months the board’s gonna be like no you can’t you can’t spend your our money that way right um and so we split out a non-profit entity gave it a block reward gave it a charter that um you know

(29:02) driving the mission and on the health of the network um now the the saya foundation and of course it’s not or the the sahaya network um has an entity that’s you know not under my control it’s it’s not for profit there’s there’s no profit element that has a budget that can get stuff done um and so things like why haven’t you maintained the wallet in two years well now now there’s a budget and like we can hire devs or now we but for the saya foundation can hire devs to maintain the

(29:32) wallet uh more properly and and i think that that um this is very new this high foundation i think has been incorporated for three months maybe four um so it’s it’s very fresh we can’t we can’t you know definitively say that that it worked out super well yet um but i’m very optimistic uh the fork went off without a hitch and you know there there’s always a little bit of contention but i think in general everyone agreed um it’s better it’s better that that there’s a budget for the health of the

(30:03) network than it is that there’s no you know pre-miner or the other sorts of uh fun terms that get thrown around and so i i encourage handshake to move in the same direction i i think it would be very beneficial yeah all right i think that’d be great but that’d be great but one issue is there is that you are aligned with the foundation and the kind of company itself whereas handshakes so for we’ve done this we’ve created this d web foundation but we don’t have any authorization right so um if we were to try and build

(30:33) in a block reward or propose an adjustment to the code to to build in a block reward for the foundation who’s to say like that it’s our foundation that gets it right because there is no designated foundation there’s a connection between the code and the foundation in other chains that would allow that so how would you kind of think about making i think it’s a great idea um and i do a little bit of mining and i would be up for that but i want to know you know how do we designate who actually gets it how it’s

(31:01) determined i guess yeah so i i would actually say uh just normal vanilla social consensus i don’t i don’t think dows are quite to the point of sophistication where it makes sense i think there are too many too many things that can go wrong and it’s just it’s too hard to pull off um so let’s wait on the dow until dow technology is is better um you know maybe one day it’ll get there but at least for us and i i think um i i think you actually overstate the connection between the company and the

(31:30) software it you know we’re decentralized like anything else um the you know we don’t have the ability and we never have had the ability to push updates to users so if we introduce a hard fork we really have to politic the thing basically convince people that that they should upgrade convince people that it’s the right move um and get and give people you know an opportunity to become comfortable with it and and also like engage with them here hear concerns and adjust the planning based on um the ecosystem and and so i think i think

(32:03) that you guys would just be in a position of talk to all the exchanges talk to all the minors talk to all the major developers talk to all the twitter figureheads talk to you know everyone who has mind share within the handshake ecosystem and it’s just this big political game get them all rallied around the same the same final foundation figure out you know who can you put in the foundation that everyone’s going to be like yes this is better than this is better than the status quo and and um so i think it is like politically um

(32:35) there’s a lot of work and for us it was also a lot of work but i i think that um yeah i i definitely think that the politics are viable and i think the argument for um having money is much better than not having money for the ecosystem it’s just a matter of figuring out um who who do you trust to manage that money and and what sort of rules do you attach to their management of the money and and if you use a non-profit foundation you can attach legal um like a legally enforced uh responsibility and if they violate that responsibility

(33:11) they can they can in the worst case go to jail which which i think is it’s not decentralized but it’s powerful yeah no i think that’s a that’s a great suggestion greg were you going to chime in on that yeah i mean a big question for me about handshake is uh how the governance is done i don’t think you know there’s a governance model i mean social consensus on chain works phenomenally it worked phenomenally for us and i think it worked phenomenally a lot of projects um um if you look at what cosmos is doing and

(33:40) if you consider you know on-chain governance and cosmos and cases what they’re doing right i think there’s a lot to be learned there and this also presents another challenge as to how you it’s a proof-of-work system so not really clear as to how that would work an engineering governance model uh but you know governance is very critical for early projects like handshake and i think the assumption that a decentralized network will take off on its own without uh without meaning without getting that help or that lift in the

(34:12) early days is uh the fallacy um so i’d love to see more governance and more effort towards that and governance can solve lots of problems about you know capital uh distribution what not yeah i think that makes a lot of sense yuri i mean any thoughts on on this governance side of things or in terms of this whole idea of uh you know being able to financially support uh handshake uh one i’m an outsider to handshake so i’m still new and i’m still learning um it’s been interesting how hard it is to actually know like

(34:47) or even talk to somebody from handshake you know what i mean like it’s like who they talked about you know i mean like it’s kind of kind of funny but it’s kind of a joke but that’s that’s a feature not a bug right exactly i was like that’s actually that’s actually a feature that’s not that’s not a bug um i think having companies like ace run certain things is great uh we need to think more about it like for us personally like for puma uh so far we’ve been a kind like a much

(35:10) more traditional kind of startup like structure uh where we’re delaware c corp we raised a little bit of funding a little bit of bootstrapped and kind of like building it as a traditional company but i think this from that from a community perspective um there’s so much uh you can do when um like people like we started with let’s like let’s not have a token in the browser like we don’t think it makes sense i think it needs to be much more careful design at the same time we’re big fans of brave and

(35:35) they’ve done a really great job and you have different budgets when you can have this kind of portion of um portion of the of the blog allocated to the to the foundation or to the grants program i it seems that there’s some convergence there’s been a lot of experimentation uh i think we need to look into the things that worked really well um and go with it but i think also early on there’s i think often um a little bit too much like premature engineering on the on the technical side or organizational side

(36:02) where if the decision making is really hard then the system will actually have a smaller chance of being adopted if it can’t innovate if it can move faster um to to make sure that the people using it are happy and so i think there’s a balance to be had and then i think the term people are starting to use in this case is the progressive decentralization so you start with a little bit more centralized approach and you progressively move forward to a more decentralized community um and have more people involved

(36:28) um i think that’s a great way to do it uh and again i think i think i wish somebody would would do a little bit of anthropology on the you know since the dawn of the crypto industry like which projects were structured which way what are the learnings what are the things that worked what are the things that didn’t work but i think it’s starting to emerge very quickly and this is something that david and greg have much more to say than i do uh we are focusing much more on that like how can we make it super easy for people to

(36:51) use to download to reduce the cognitive load to reduce the number of steps it needs to sign up for things um but we’re also starting to look into much more deeper organizational structure and should there be like a puma community puma token and things like that and how they if they were to exist how would they interoperate with uh other communities like handshake announce i think it’s a pretty interesting topic yeah that’s amazing well after puma goes goes public and you’re a multi-billionaire you can

(37:18) teach that university class uh okay so we’re gonna we’re gonna keep going i think we’re nearly out of time here unfortunately um so maybe we can start to wrap up uh and just take last thoughts from from each of you in terms of what you’d like to see next uh what you’re building next uh in terms of handshake um how you’re thinking about you know the next like six months roadmap in terms of any further features or any further integrations um or things that you’d like to see big things that you’d like to see other

(37:44) people build in handshake um we’ll start uh with you greg yeah like i said in the next six months we are um contributing to the ibc um the cosmos ibc uh protocol and uh we also maintain the relayer so interoperability is on our radar over the next one year and dns in storage as a matter of fact happens to be a top priority so in that essence i would love to see um us making progress on auto registration of your sub domains or your second level domains uh with the with handshake we also have a tld akash next so we look forward to

(38:28) actually uh giving some domains under akashnet and and the challenge is is really figuring out how to do this in a decentralized way maybe using a threshold signature uh way so um i’d love to see that come to fusion be great to have human readable names uh instead of ip addresses and that also speaks to the broader effort where we’re uh you know we’re envisioning as akash being the decent plus uh gateway to the decentralized cloud and an ideal role i love to see uh you know one token we love to interoperate with every other

(39:06) d-cloud or a decent class cloud network in a frictionless way where you can use any tokens that we interpret with to pay for services for for any of the uh interoperated uh integrated services like you should be able to pay um for storage using a cost okay and you should be able to pay for you know uh for compute using you know saya talking right and vice versa with handshakes so uh that’s really the vision and the dream we’re choosing and handshaking and scan it happens to be in that path great great yuri yeah

(39:41) very excited so we made the first step of hns preview we’d like to have a deeper integration with proper light client and full client um on the puma side uh jahan was actually running one of the previous sessions and somebody on the in the chat said that they’re looking for like they’re open to helping us build it so we’re chatting already with these who might help us build it uh we’re actively hiring ios android engineers if you’re excited to build towards uh more decent less future on

(40:05) all these axes please reach out to me uh for us in particular the support like we’d love to again like sync up again with david to see what we can do on the cya side um i know uh some folks from the ens spoke earlier today in in a in a in a more engaging fun fun conversations with with much more tension um i think it’s important to to to have support for for all the popular systems we’d like to have better support for ens as well it’s pretty embarrassing how long we’ve gone without having a proper

(40:32) ethereum wallet uh which we would love to add as well and then continuing on the webinarization side i think um the ecosystem has been growing interledger protocol uh i think by design has been really awesome we need more things like that i’ve been heads down building so getting up to speed on what’s happening on the ibc side on the polkadot ecosystems i think is very interesting um just in particular with web monetization i think one thing that i think a lot of other projects could learn uh from that uh approach is that uh targeting

(41:04) javascript developers and targeting like an audience that uh is is technical but not necessarily as as deep like the crypt is so hard to use there’s so many different layers and so many different things you need to learn that i think making things a little bit more safe and approachable uh it would be it would be an important priority but you know having an identity built into your browser is is a pretty important problem that we’d like to tackle the right way and there’s different approaches that we’re exploring uh we’ll be announcing

(41:31) soon and then there’s some other search engine partnerships will be announcing so that we’re really excited about there’s been a big tailwind for privacyfirst projects on on all fronts and we’re really excited to make them accessible in on your ios and android phones great uh and david last thoughts yeah um i guess kind of going into the the theme of what what we’re working on um i think the the three biggest things on our mind right now are our monetization um we would love to see you know people publish pages and then

(42:07) get get paid as people visit them and that’s actually i think you know with within a month we’re going to have that live i’m just very close at this point and then another thing that’s been very big on our minds and and for our team is discoverability so if people are doing things on skynet making apps on handshake if there are if there’s activity how do i know about it um i think one of one of the things we’ve seen is that the skynet ecosystem right now is a lot bigger than most people realize but also

(42:39) when you’re like oh great show me all the things that are happening it’s kind of like um and that’s that’s something that we we hope to have solved uh very soon um we’re working on some stuff that will make it a lot easier for you to i’m kind of like the stumble upon internet days if you’re like what’s happening or almost like a reddit for decentralization you just you can you can see what’s happening um and then and then finally just in general interoperability we we’re big believers in like the single

(43:07) global um identity so once once you log into skynetwords across nine different apps but at the same time it’s all secure it’s all pub key based nobody gets your private key and so as you go to seven different domains they’re all accessing different data they can’t like crosstalk they can’t steal each other’s data without user permission and so that’s that’s something that’s also um we already have that a little bit in the form of sky id but we we found a much stronger way to move forward with

(43:35) that so we hope to announce that um in the next two to three weeks so i think i think that’s kind of kind of where we’re focused for the time being but certainly um very busy my whole life is writing uh product announcements at the moment awesome awesome well great incredible conversation guys really appreciate everything that you’re doing for the handshake community and and you know best of luck to you to all of you and like kosh and uh saya and puma thanks again thank you jihan this was fun [Music]